What’s a girl worth? Some say that it depends on your theology of men and women. People in Christianity typically divide into two camps, one (complementarians) that teaches that women and men have separate roles and that men are to lead women, and one (egalitarians) that teaches that men and women are equals and should have the roles for which they are gifted.
I’m a blend of the two — I don’t believe that women’s permanent posture towards men must be “yes,” a characteristic of the submission teachings. I do not believe that we are the only ones who are to submit — Ephesians describes mutual submission just prior to the verse in which Paul writes about wives submitting to husbands. Nor do I believe that there are roles for men and separate roles for women, other than those biologically determined (for example, men cannot birth children). I believe that you should do what you’re good at, no matter what your gender.
But after reading the following, I do believe that people come together in ways that complement one another — they fill in each other’s gaps.
“God didn’t create the woman to bring half of herself to his global commission or to minimize herself when the man is around. The fanfare over her is overblown if God was only planning for her to do for the man things he was perfectly capable of doing for himself or didn’t even need. The man won’t starve without her. In the garden [of Eden], he really doesn’t need someone to do laundry, pick up after him, or manage his home. If Adam must think, decide, protect, and provide for the woman, she actually becomes a burden on him — not much help when you think about it. The kind of help the man needs demands full deployment of her strength, her gifts, and the best she has to offer. His life will change for the better because of what she contributes to his life. Together they will daily prove in countless and surprising ways that two are always better than one.”
(from “Half the Church” by Carolyn Justis James, emphasis mine)
This is what a girl’s worth. She brings her strengths and her best to the church and to her marriage, and she is valuable because those strengths are unique to her. When men and women all do this — bring their strengths and their all — to serve one another, I see tremendous opportunity to prize and value each other.
What do you think? What do you bring to your relationships that the other lacks?
A response to Tamara Outloud‘s call for responses to her original question, what’s a girl worth?
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“When men and women all do this — bring their strengths and their all — to serve one another, I see tremendous opportunity to prize and value each other.” That is a wonderful statement of truth! Especially in a marriage. It is so important to bring our all and to work together.
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Love it. Thank you for this empowering view!
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That is awesome. Don’t want to tell what I bring that he doesn’t because I’m not here to expose My Man, but we both acknowledge that we bring different things to the table. Its a good thing, too. Thanks for this post!
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OK, so I promised I’d copy/paste and continue from Facebook. I have lots of thoughts bumping around in my head and not enough time or space to address them all. Here is what I wrote earlier: “I find this statement inaccurate: ” one (complementarians) that teaches that women and men have separate roles and that men are to lead women, and one (egalitarians) that teaches that men and women are equals and should have the roles for which they are gifted.” This implies that complementarians see women as something less than equal, which is not my experience. Different roles, yes……..different value, no.”
” Also, I’m not sure what you mean by a woman’s permanent posture to a man being “yes”, as I have not found this to be my (complementarian-filled) experience. I think there’s a HUGE difference between saying that I believe I’m biblically mandated to submit to my husband and saying that I have to always agree with him or say “yes” to everything about him. Also, I think we need to distinguish between submission to men in general (which I don’t necessarily think is Biblical, nor do I think that most (OK, I *think* most) of my complementarian acquaintances would say was Biblical)……..and submission to my own husband. And some form of submission to church leadership, but I don’t think this is exclusive to women, but to all people who are part of the church.”
On the first item, I intentionally didn’t state that complementarians devalue women (though it’s a spectrum and plenty of them DO devalue women).
On the second, again, it’s a spectrum. Not all complementarians do this, but a scary number of churches use submission to put women in a position in which their husbands are lords over them and they have no input into decisions. This is something complementarians need to watch carefully to avoid.
On the third, I think you are saying that yes, there is a mutual submission piece? Not sure.
Yes, I know that you didn’t state that complementarians devalue women. However, I feel that you implied it by stating that egalitarians think women are equal. It seemed rather pointed that you only talked about complementarians and their view on women’s roles, but you added an extra phrase when you addressed the views of egalitarians.
Of course it’s a spectrum, like most other issues, church-related or not…………but you weren’t discussing “the spectrum” in this post. You were specifically discussing complementarianism vs. egalitarianism as two “camps”.
On the third, I’m not talking about mutual submission. I’m talking about being clear about to whom I am to submit. As a wife, I am to submit to my husband. As a Christian (male or female), I am to submit to the leadership of the church that God has put in place.
I’ll let you copy/paste your reply if you want to, Joy, but I’m going to go ahead and say this now: I don’t think it’s fair to judge any group based on its extremists, and I don’t think it’s wise to paint any group of people with broad strokes. I’ll go on record as saying that I’m not offended, angry, or even really upset, but I am concerned about the bias I feel you’re presenting in this post.
As someone who identifies more with the complementarian position, I have to admit that I’ve been uncomfortable saying that without some disclaimer or explanation. My understanding and opinion is that in general, women are created – biologically speaking – not only to bear children, but to be nurturers. But that’s a really broad generalization, and I know men who are incredibly nurturing, and women who have an amazing drive for accomplishing great things.
In addition, the gifts and abilities given to anyone are intended to be useful – so it is important and worthwhile for men and women to work together to the fullest, utilizing whatever abilities are present. At the same time, I think there are specific rules for order that should be observed, no matter what gifts and abilities are present, so that all things can be done “decently and in order.”
So, it was refreshing to me to hear from someone else who doesn’t fit squarely into one category or the other. I suspect, maybe, that I tend to fall closer to the complementarian camp then you, Joy, but just hearing from someone else that they just don’t see it as an “either/or” issue makes me feel a little less alone.
I agree with Shelly. This is a pretty broad definition of complementarians. That said, there are definitely groups and churches who abuse this view much to the dishonor of God and women.
As for the permanent “yes” posture, I’ve yet to meet or read a complementarian perspective that preaches this. (No doubt some do–I believe that is a misuse and they will be judged for it when they meet the Judge.) But if I said yes to everything my husband said, thought, or wanted to do…we’d have a pretty boring relationship and I know he would hate me having that posture. He didn’t marry me to be his doormat or bed-warmer.
Maybe you’re referring to what some call “that last word”? Like if there’s an issue where a decision has to be made and the couple can’t come to a conclusion together, the husband makes the final call. I think that works. If no one makes any decision there’s a problem or if both go their own way on the issue there’s a problem.
And it’s not that the woman has no say, she says her piece and the ultimate decision is up to her husband. He’s the one ultimately responsible before the Father for her and his family, the same way Christ is responsible for the Church. So if his decision goes downhill, he’s held responsible.
I also think the complementarian view (or any for that matter) hinges on humility, if both parties aren’t humble then it’s not going to work.
But yes, complementarian…equal value, equal worth, different roles. Just like the Trinity.
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I think a lot of us try and fit each other into boxes and don’t value our differences and that what works for one may not be best for everyone. I am a Professor for instance, my husband has told me (when I have been between jobs) that I am not good at staying at the whole housewife thing. I get bored too easily and start to over think. But that isn’t the case for everyone. Likewise, as Joy stated – there is a spectrum in complementarians just as there is with egalitarians. The extremes are likely unhealthy, but every couple is different and I can’t judge complementarians for having a different view – that also is wrong.
That said, there are elements that are dangerous when it comes to the worth of a woman, and we need to check our own beliefs from time to time for the logical conclusion. I grew up not wanting to get married because I thought it a Christian marriage meant I couldn’t be who I felt like I should be. I would never want one of my (theoretical – I don’t have children yet) daughters to go through those same struggles.
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I know this is totally unpopular but I don’t think women are designed to preach and teach men. It fuels the (perhaps stereotyped) weakness of each sex – the men to be lazy and the women to be too controlling. However I don’t believe that women need to “yes” the men either. In Ephesians 5 it says for the women to be submissive, but then the responsibility for the men is so much greater, their instructions are much longer actually.
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Today is the first day in weeks I can read any other blog than Sara’s. I read Ann once, but it was about Sara. I’m very pensive now, but no tears for the first time since I read the words, “the journey is coming to an end” . I’m so sorry for being absent from here. And now that I’m here I’m reminded why I read almost exclusively blogs written by Christian moms. For me to think that women, especially moms, most especially moms have any less “value” or should have a posture of only submission would be so wrong. I have learned so much from the reading of women, Christian women, Christian moms. Their voice, your voice, is necessary. The submission verse is only one verse and needs to be taken in context with all of Christian life, and all of the Bible, and total submission of women to men is not in the Bible, and I don’t think should be in life. I’m with you. I’m in the mushy middle. But I heart your wisdom, your voice. God bless you Joy, and God bless and keep all of yours.
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I still struggle with the Bible’s constant instruction for wives to submit to their husbands. I can’t help but think it somehow means that women are inferior to men, and I don’t (want to) believe that. God made woman FROM man, and I think that that alone means that we need each other to be fulfilled.
Thank you for the food for thought!
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