This morning I read a post written by a mom of 2 from Texas to explain why she is raising her children without God. (Why, you ask, would I read such a thing? Because I think it’s good to try to understand where others are coming from, especially those who see the world very differently. The best way to do that is to listen to them explain themselves.)
Her words leak raw and sometimes bitter, and honestly, I haven’t been able to stop thinking about it. Much of what she wrote resonated with me. Not because I’m raising my children without God (I simply cannot be an atheist, in spite of my doubts and my questions), but because she describes some of the things I’ve struggled to reconcile about Him. Consider the following, from her article:
God is not fair.
If God is fair, then why does he answer the silly prayers of some while allowing other, serious requests, to go unanswered? I have known people who pray that they can find money to buy new furniture. (Answered.) I have known people who pray to God to help them win a soccer match. (Answered.) Why are the prayers of parents with dying children not answered?If God is fair, then why are some babies born with heart defects, autism, missing limbs or conjoined to another baby? Clearly, all men are not created equally. Why is a good man beaten senseless on the street while an evil man finds great wealth taking advantage of others? This is not fair. A game maker who allows luck to rule mankind’s existence has not created a fair game.
God does not protect the innocent.
He does not keep our children safe. As a society, we stand up and speak for those who cannot. We protect our little ones as much as possible. When a child is kidnapped, we work together to find the child. We do not tolerate abuse and neglect. Why can’t God, with all his powers of omnipotence, protect the innocent?
I think these questions have good answers (and I think some of the answers we don’t have, and maybe couldn’t understand even if we were given them). But these are the questions that led me to doubt God’s goodness (see yesterday’s interview clip) when I was confronted with two children with medical/special needs and spent so much time at a children’s hospital. (Think about that phrase for a minute: children’s hospital. There are enough children who need one to necessitate an entire hospital dedicated to children. *sob*) It is difficult (impossible) to trust someone who isn’t good. So this is an essential piece of faith – the goodness of God.
Tell me how you would respond to these statements. Do you ever read what people say with whom you disagree? Why or why not?
I struggle with the idea that I have an apparently God-given conscience that somehow contradicts actions God supposedly takes in the historical accounts of scripture. How can God do something I would feel guilty doing? How can he discriminate between races, ethnic groups, etc. when I clearly know that is wrong?
This. I wouldn’t call myself a good person, but even on a bad day, I don’t engage in mass murder.
I do seek out the opinions of those with whom I disagree. Doing so challenges my own beliefs, perhaps those based on faulty assumptions, and forces me to examine those beliefs in the light of God’s truth and Who He really is rather who I’ve perhaps imagined Him to be. It also helps me to understand where others are coming from, like you said.
My answers are based on what God says about Himself and about the state of man in His Word and also my experience of Him and what I observe in nature. Sometimes I think it is best to just mourn with those who mourn and give answers later, when people really are looking for answers. If someone was honestly asking my opinion of what amounts to the problem of evil, I would have a few general answers: 1) God will bring justice in the end. The story isn’t over yet. We’re in the middle where it sometimes seems like the bad guy is winning, but the good guy is going to win in the end and we will all live happily ever after. That doesn’t end the pain of being in the hard middle of the story, but it is an answer to the idea of God being unfair and not protecting the innocent. Revelations 20:11-13, “Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.”
2) This earth isn’t all that there is. Our existence goes on into eternity and our days on earth are but a fleeting breath. I truly believe our sufferings here will pale in comparison to the glory that will be revealed in us (Rom. 8:18). Much of Scripture is on this topic.
3) God answering prayer. Just because someone prayed they would win a soccer game and then won doesn’t mean that the reason they won was because God answered their prayer. When I was suffering from chronic illness, I kept praying for God to heal me. But I wasn’t getting any better. That’s when God really opened up His Word to me on prayer and how Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemene. If you remember, he prayed in such anguish that he sweated blood and asked for God to remove the cross from him. And how did God answer that prayer? Then I found this beautiful explanation in Hebrews 4:7-9, “During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him…” So we see first of all that Jesus was heard. That means so much to me. Even when the answer to our prayers is “no,” it doesn’t mean that we aren’t heard. We are heard! And we are answered! It’s just not an answer that we like sometimes. If Jesus needed to learn obedience from what he suffered, then how much more do I need to learn obedience from what I suffer! And learning obedience through suffering is not always a result of our own sin or a punishment for sin. Certainly this was never the case for Jesus, yet the Scriptures say he learned obedience from what he suffered. And we know now that although Jesus had to suffer through the greatest evil of all time, it also resulted in the greatest good of all time. I believe that God can also redeem our sufferings for good in the same way. It doesn’t mean that the evil IS good (certainly it can never be said that those who murdered the only perfect man did something GOOD) but that God can use it for good. And, as I said in point #1, justice will be done in the end. Evil will be punished.
4) God is God and I am not. Job asked the Lord all of these same questions and here is what God said to him, Job 40:6-14, “Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm: ‘Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. Would you discredit my justice? Would you condemn me to justify yourself ? Do you have an arm like God’s, and can your voice thunder like his? Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor, and clothe yourself in honor and majesty. Unleash the fury of your wrath, look at every proud man and bring him low, look at every proud man and humble him, crush the wicked where they stand. Bury them all in the dust together; shroud their faces in the grave. Then I myself will admit to you that your own right hand can save you.’”
This is an EXCELLENT point: “Just because someone prayed they would win a soccer game and then won doesn’t mean that the reason they won was because God answered their prayer.” We attribute too much of what happens here to God, IMO. He is always creating and loving in our lives, but the details? Sadly, they’re under the authority of sin for now…
1. I think it’s good to read or listen to other perspectives. We can get so bogged down in our own worldview and our own “stuff”, and it stifles growth. That’s the easy question to answer.
2. I have no idea why God is not fair. It would be disingenuous to look at our world, how the poor are suffering and the rich are often seemingly rewarded for greed, to say that God is fair. There have been two children in my life that have been diagnosed with childhood cancer. One came through amazingly well–he has been in remission since his first round of treatments. The other passed away after years of ups and downs. Both families served God, both prayed daily for healing and restoration. It’s hard to look at that and understand what sort of order God might have in His mind.
I just read a huge, insanely long blog post that addresses some of these issues. ( http://pastorjonathanmartin.com/uncategorized/the-god-of-the-sea-and-the-sea-monster/ ) I think what Jonathan puts forward is true–we are living in the time of the sea, the time of chaos. I do believe this: God is good and He loves us with an unfailing, wild love. I believe that He will put all things right in His time. And I believe that He weeps with us.
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This is a very good question that most if not all of us struggle with at one point or another in this journey.
Maybe, however, we are approaching this great question from the wrong angle.
Our society treats suffering as if it were some disease that must be eradicated – any discomfort must be treated and cured. The vast amounts of depression medication consumed in this country further display our fear of feeling anything. We must be open to the possibility that our sufferings can become our greatest blessings. And sometimes the importance of the answers that we so desperately seek pale in comparison to the grace and mercy that we can find in growing and being healed from the horrible experience that we have had to endure.
Suffering is a part of Life. No one escapes some form of suffering and injustice. Romans 5:3-5 states, “More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.” Furthermore, Isaiah 43:2 says, “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you. ”
I do not claim to be able to answer why good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people, however, part of being a child of God dictates that we be there for our brothers and sisters when they are suffering to help them bear the weight of the pain. If we could, as a society and individually reach out in this manner of love just a little more – this world could be a much better place. These are just some ideas I though might be a good place to start when approaching this very perplexing and humbling issue. Thank you may God bless you.
I read many opinions/memoirs/editorials that I don’t agree with. It broadens my scope. I am not threatened by this. I think, to address the questions about God in Life, that there is so much bad theology out there and far too many pat answers to our biggest questions–it’s insulting. God gets blamed for so much. We try to squeeze God into a little box in order to make ourselves feel better. It is painful to live in that gray area and so much more comforting when it’s black and white and we can come up with an Answer; it’s “God’s Plan” is the worst. Sometimes I think God must be crying.
As someone who has struggled acutely with God over the fairness issue (see my still-broken-hearted foster/adopted daughter who went so far down hill despite our care that she’s been in a children’s psych facility–yes, there are enough kids for multiple places like this, as well–for 18 months), I have to say that I never got a good answer to this until I read Paul Young’s The Shack last month. It blew a fuse in my worldview and my understanding of the heart of God for the human race. I’ve given it to every not-yet-believing friend I have and am talking them through it. Very few authors pierce so skillfully through the lies we create in our heads about God. So grateful I came across that book!
I love your post, and also Christy’s comment, with which I agree. Couldn’t put it better.
I wrote about my own journey on my blog here and in my book Plaçes of Abiding with Jesus. I see it as a spiritual journey with Him in the inner realms.
http://amblingsaint.wordpress.com/2012/12/24/the-desert/
Elexa, here is a provocative answer. If I were making the world like God did, could I not have conceived and birthed all the people who would choose some particular evil into one nation in time and space, which might make some sense of the instruction to kill all of those in that nation at a later point in time after they had freely themselves individually made their choice? Like I might put all the piranha fish in a different pond from the goldfish? Later I decide to get rid of my piranha pond completely?
Ambling saint recently posted..Christmas and the Adult Jesus
I love your post, and also Christy’s comment, with which I agree. I wrote about my own journey on my blog here
http://amblingsaint.wordpress.com/2012/12/24/the-desert/
And also in my book
For Amazon.co.uk
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Places-Abiding-Experiencing-Christian-ebook/dp/B009088ASC/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1345705858&sr=1-
For Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Places-Abiding-Experiencing-Christian-ebook/dp/B009088ASC/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1345705127&sr=8-7&keywords=Places+o
Ambling Saint recently posted..Christmas and the Adult Jesus
These are questions we have probably all asked at some time. I recently read a fantastic book that articulated answers to this in a much better way than I could- highly recommend reading John Eldredge’s “Walking with God” for more. Excerpt below, 2nd para is the most pertinent to this post but I am taking it out of context by quoting this small section so definitely encourage you to read it for yourself:
“The first major awakening in our journey of faith is coming to realise that God exists. The second, and far more life changing, epiphany is when we come to realise that we have to deal with him. Take him into account. We come to see that God is not to be ignored. This is an even bigger jolt and a major course of correction for any human being. Many people avoid it for years. But hopefully we come to see that there is no better way than to place our love and trust in God, accept his invitation to life and give our hearts to him. We become his sons and daughters through faith in Jesus Christ. And hopefully his followers.
But there is another major awakening. The next epiphany in our journey of faith is coming to realise that Satan exists. That we have to deal with him too…I’m sorry to say that this awakening is uncommon, even among the followers of Christ-despite the fact that the scripture is filled with warnings of an enemy.”
When I first starting blogging, over two years ago now, I specifically did not set about making a “Christian blog”. When I visited blogs written by Christians I often found it uninspiring, and trite. Kinda like “woman’s ministry” at church! I have since found several truthful fantastic blogs written by Christian bloggers. I have found a few that that I really appreciate, that really resonate with me that are not Christian in the least, but in terms of values of lifestyle choice and purposeful living, and child rearing, I found I had so much more in common with than with most mainstream Christians in my own church. I struggled with that for awhile. And the worse of my sharp pessimistic tongue came out at that time, which just souring me. In anything I take up, I consciously let The Spirit direct. In other words I just write what stirs up and has to come out. In the last year of blogging I have found my self writing much more candidly about Jesus Christ. Not writing like a “Christian” if that makes sense to you. Christians have become a very real sub-culture in modern America, and it is my belief that, that sub-culture is nothing like how Jesus did things, or how His Spirit does this. But there are many, many honest searching folk who disdain that American Christian culture, all the while unawares to them (because they have never read the Bible) live more Spiritual lives as God in the scriptures tells His people to live out. They are just trying to live out a wise, good, authentic life. Some people just are spiritual. The way some people are just athletic or brilliant with numbers. Those are the types of bloggers and people I like to be around, and have learned from. Yet, “blanket spirituality” let’s call it, will only improve your life so much, it will not and cannot save your life from the evil around us, the fallen-ness in us. Only Jesus Christ can. And I so get what you say about religious church-y Christians, as I call them. I don’t pretend to have all the answers tied up in a nice pretty God-bow. (On my blog or face to face with people, and especially with my children). And asking questions and expressing disappointment is a place we all have to go through.We can’t however, throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak. And it is exactly that truth, that I try, when prompted, to type out with honesty, winsomeness, and a little bit of sarcasm.
Cheers,
Leah
Leah recently posted.." I’ll follow the sun"
I love reading things written by people with near opposite views to myself.
This woman makes a good point ! I think of these things often. I recently read the book ‘God on Mute’ by Greg Valario which really helped me wrestle with these questions.
Thanks for a thought provoking post.
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To you Joy, I say thank you for beautiful, honest posts.
To the mom of 2 in Texas I say, I understand completely where you are at. There was a time in my life where I was where you are. I’m not there anymore. That journey is too much for a comment section, but here’s the deal: God is not fair via our earthly circumstances. Our justice comes when our time here is over and we are with him eternally. He gives us choices, he lets us suffer. Through it all, Texas mom, if you can find it in you to open your heart and let him in you will find his immense love, lavish blessings, and a plan for you that is beyond anything you could plan for yourself. He promises this scripturally. He never, ever breaks a promise. He never promised that our lives here would be easy, but he will love us all through it. Proof? Is that his son died on a cross for my petty life.